Developer Donation Challenge

[winanscreative]

So, I was doing some thinking recently and realize really how much my business has really benefited from Contao and the efforts of all the developers, partners, and team. I thought it would be good to get an effort together to donate back to the project, to continue improving a CMS that I, and likely a lot of you, consider to be a real boon to our businesses.

I'd like to get a challenge together for developers who are realizing the benefits of Contao, and see how much we can help drive the project forward. Chances are, if you've been working with it as much as a lot of us have, you've figured out that this is a pretty powerful system that has a lot of potential.

I consider it an investment... One in the future of my business, in addition to a great open-source project.

Looking forward to see what we can do.

[Doublespark]

What kind of thing did you have in mind?

[PaoloB]

I consider it an investment... One in the future of my business, in addition to a great open-source project.

Also I think this.

This year I bought the template just to make a "donation" to the project.

Next year I will do another "donation", the highest, because I believe in this project.


I saw the advertisement on the site contao.org, are needed funding to the project?

[winanscreative]

Oh, for those who don't know, you can donate to the project using the PayPal "Donate" Button at the bottom of http://www.contao.org.

Paolo, not sure if funding is needed but I think it is definitely deserved...

[FloB]

There's gonna be a (privately organized) Developer Conference in Germany some time in November. As far as I can tell, they will talk a lot about the framework though I doubt there will be a Hackathon-like event. I bet there will be some spin-off but it depends on Leo to implement the work (which probably won't happen until Contao 3 because it will include major API modifications).

[PaoloB]

Paolo, not sure if funding is needed but I think it is definitely deserved...

Yes, of course ... is undoubtedly deserved

[Tru]

In my opinion, Contao does not need money support. Of course, cash could push Contao forward, but not as much as the growing number of users. The thing is this cms needs more docs (like contao-factory.com) and better marketing to spread it world-wide. However, the target should not be an average WP-user or Joomla-user, but a webdeveloper that has some knowledge in php & mysql. Let him know that extending Contao is simple as pie. The power of Contao is that it can be used in unusual, small projects, where other cmses fail (e.g. intranet system)!

The future of any project lies in hands of developers, and the more developers you got, the project becomes better. And money has no influence on that.

[winanscreative]

I agree, Tru... Developers are definitely key to the project, as is documentation. No one will argue with you there. (And yes, I know I need to get my ass in gear on the documentation for the Factory project :mrgreen: )

But money can do things like buy time & resources in order to do the documentation, etc. As with any project, having good funding is a key piece of the puzzle, and provides a motivation for innovation.

But donations can come in any form, not just money. I think that donating some time to documentation is just as good as gold.

I think that good developers will recognize the ultimate value that Contao brings to their livelihood, and if we get a handful of people to step up and give back, no matter what their donation might be, I think not only the project will be much better off, but those developers' businesses as well...

[imported_Nina]

We've got some discussions about this in the german community too. Two languages but the same thoughts :D

If we could collect enough money, maybe we could even translate one of the german books? But like I mentioned in the other thread, this would need a lot of money so it's propably a bit unlikely. :?

There've been several ideas (uncommented/unrated by the team until now):

financial support

• a little bit higher partner fees[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• a new additional "contributor" status for partners with a fixed annual fee (just to support the system[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• a new "contao club member" status with a fixed small annual fee (just to support the system)[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• calculate a small "supporting Contao"-fee into your regular customer invoices and donate it to Contao after payment[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• do the same if you use third-party extensions in customer projects and also donate a little bit to these extension programmers or send them something from their Amazon-wishlist (we added Amazon-Wishlist as a profile field in the german board)[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• buy something (for example a lot of live update IDs even if you don't need them) in Leos shop just as a donation[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• support Leo Feyer by hosting your website at iNet Robots[/*:m:13cfqei1]

non-financial support

• write documentations[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• answer questions in the boards[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• create documentation videos[/*:m:13cfqei1]
• spread the word about Contao[/*:m:13cfqei1]

[winanscreative]

These are great suggestions, Nina... Thanks for posting this!

Out of curiosity, what would be looking at for costs to translate one of the German books? I know it's not cheap, but it's something so worthwhile that I think it would be a major accomplishment for the project and something worth pursuing. I would definitely take up that cause...

[imported_Nina]

Like I said in the other thread: Translaton companies talked about at least 10.000 € for for my book (360 pages) :?

It would of course also depend which book we want to translate:

Contao webmaster books:
Leos old TYPOlight book has about 386 pages and I suppose his new Contao book will proably have even more.
Peters Contao book: 528 pages.
Anne-Kahtrins Contao book: 633 pages

Thomas' book (only for Contao designers): 251 pages
My book (only for Contao editors): 360 pages

So if we'd think about translating Leos book (because it's the only book that features informations for developers as well), we'd need to fund about 10-12.000 Euros. At least that's what I guess based on the informations I got for my own book.

[Terion]

Great thoughts, Winan.
As for me, about donations, since the moment, when at least one of my projects, based on Contao, begin to generate money, I will begin to send donations monthly. I think, that it is right practice: if you use an open (free) project in commercial purposes, share gainings with the team, that is working on this project.
The same about Isotope, or any other great extension, used in commercial purposes.

[FloB]

Why not crowdsource the translation of one of the Contao books? There should be enough people who can translate well between English and German, and we can have native English speakers for proof reading (i. e. do people understand what has been written?). To avoid Copyright problems (e. g. with the publishers), this should be done on an enclosed platform though people who want to translate can subscribe for it (they need to be activated). We can actually use a self-hosted version of Etherpad so live collaborative editing is possible. The translators get a reference for their work and maybe even a small pay from the revenues ("Aufwandsentschädigung").

I'd be willing to translate some parts, depending on how much time I got left during my studies. I actually like translating and describing things in a way people can understand (which is probably the most important part when translating).

[imported_Nina]

Crowdsourcing the book translation could create two major several problems:
- Non-consistent writing style because of different translators and "proof-readers"
- Legal problems because the publishers usually are extremely strict about that stuff. Remember that we'd need to provide the people involved (even if we do it behind closed doors) with the book content. This would only work if they all sign some kind of NDA. I am not sure if the publisher would accept that even if all people sign that.

[FloB]

The team shouldn't be infinitely big but rather small. That should solve big parts of both problems (though they cannot be eliminated completely – but hey, we got time and don't need to rush!).


Edit: Plus, using collaborative editing (this involves commenting on parts of the text by the contributors e. g. on the quality or writing style of the author) should align the reading experience.

[imported_Nina]

but hey, we got time and don't need to rush!

Well, that is not quite true. If we really want to translate a book by crowdsourcing and want to find a publisher for it, we need to be fast with translation. You won't find a publisher for a book that is much older than the current CMS version. Also remember that the translation rights usually belong to the original publisher. I don't think they'd allow translation without earning any money on the translated books. As far as I know the original publisher usually makes some kind of deal with the foreign publisher. So it's not a simple quesion of "creating a translation and publishing it via book on demand services".
Actually I also fear that crowdsourcing the translation would mean a lot more work than simply using that manpower for the creation of a free online-documentation.

I am really sorry that I have to spoil your enjoyment of that idea :?

I think we only have two or three choices:
a) fund a professional translation and cooperate with the original publisher to find an english publisher

and/or

b) drop the idea of translating one of the existing books in favor of a free english online-documentation that we create from scratch

and/or

c) find an english native speaker who is willing to write an english Contao book from scratch and help him/her find an english publisher for it

[FloB]

My last take on my suggestion: Of course we can't wait forever. And, having collaborative editing (well, any editing at all) we can actually update the book adding the latest changes (which won't be that much work compared to writing a new book). Plus, the translators have to be willing to spent some time translating the book and having it finished before a certain deadline. It's actually not real crowdsourcing (i. e. limited number of contributors, fixed time frames, etc.) but similar to it (i. e. especially, having a few persons of a community working on a project with little or no perspective for an immediate benefit other than being named as a contributor).

Some informal inquiry sent to the publisher could solve the first few questions. Leo's book should be translated, as it is the official book with no prospect of being published online for free (i. e. an online documentation). Nina's book is online already and could be translated directly as an online documentation (respecting the copyright).

[thyon]

Everyone is on about books, books, books, and I guess money, money, money. Even the basic documentation on Contao.org is not suitable for a user to get going, why not focus on that? No-one needs permission to work on that. I thought that is why you got involved Nina - to work on the contao.org documentation?

[FloB]

The problem is: People still want to read them and learn from books. Computer screens are still not suitable for extensive reading (except ink screen). Yes, you can have a searchable documentation on your computer which is convenient. But books are still the way to go for (big) manuals. That's why you cannot have only one of them: online documentation and a book.

[thyon]

I disagree. I forced myself initially in 1996 to start using online material, and I've never looked back. What are books?

[Ben_360fusion]

I can't remember the last time i bought a coding book or looked up some inforamtion in a book relating to learning CSS or X/HTML. I find everything online.

They also become out of date so quickly. If someone bought a book to use typolight 2.8 it wouldn't be much use with 2.9 and the new themes system.

Online documentation is the way forward.

[thyon]

Well this is my concern. There is no online documentation to speak of. Just listing the Content Element types on the CE User Guide page on contao.org, is hardly considered a manual. That's more information for a web developer than an end user.

[MacKP]

Äh.. I'm sorry.. but.. why are you crying?
We started an wiki, because there can all work together for a good documentation. We (mostly Xtra did it) made it so, that it is easy to have an english, german ore whatever site for everything.
So finaly just start writing in it.
But so as i had understand the most people here no one like it... OK the Layout is not the best, some people are working on it... but thats not a main thing there. The content is important and there we all can make something.
I know, i made all in german, but I'm realy not a coder, so everything i write is about the normal using of Contao.
I made an dokumentation about the catalog in german, because more and more people start to use it and much people ask for it.

I know there is an other site where you started documentation about extensions and Contao. So there you are... you started it and now you only must use it for documentation.

regards

[FloB]

I disagree. I forced myself initially in 1996 to start using online material, and I've never looked back. What are books?

The world (of manuals) would be easier if the world consisted of more people like you. But it doesn't.


But I agree, using the manpower for a proper online documentation first would be better.

[thyon]

My personal hesitance towards another wiki was that I had invested countless hours into writing manuals for my extensions using the wiki provided by TypoLight. Then the wiki was changed 3 times and then basically discontinued from Redmine. Every time the wiki was changed, I had to spend more hours updating the extension documentation to make it look like it did on the previous wiki. That was all a waste of time, because now there isn't even a wiki anymore (well not a workable one anyways).

So a whole group of us (and I mean there are about 7 or so) thought of using Contao itself to write the documentation. Some people had already written some stuff and some parts would still have to be written. One person donated the domain, another the hosting and others started to provide some content.

I also wanted to help, so I spent a number of hours to assist in styling and then also creating the very large page structure, a mootools pop-down navigations, icons, etc. The site is fully functional, with the outline of the sections. That was all I could contribute at that stage. Having almost zero time left, I couldn't contribute anything else.

Blair wrote an introduction, but I'm not aware how many people are currently requested access from Blair and the rest of the Contao people who have admin access.

You're welcome to take a look:
I have written my ImageHeadline's manual using the Contao Factory and you must admit, it looks pretty damn kewl, and knowing Contao was used to generate the page, was just a cherry on top.

http://www.contao-factory.com/image-headline.html

[MacKP]

Hi thyon,
i know that you had realy do your best about the documentation and the old wikis...
I told you that i would make the work for you and put the catalog docu in the new wiki. But i never get a start sign from you, so i didn't do it.

I know the page and the article you show me. Mostly i read every post here (on one time a week.. in the german forum i made a bit more). It looks realy nice thats not the point. The point for me is an other site where the docu is and a nother site where the german and engl. community isn't working together. Thats the fact now and i realy don't understand it. But now it is so and we must work with this.

So lets keep going on and make it better than it is now. We all do our best i think for documentation and helping people in the forums.

regards

[thyon]

Again, while I was transitioning the code for the Catalog over to xtra, him and I copied and recreated the wiki for the catalog in Google Code, so that we wouldn't have to rely on anything else. Then you decided to create another wiki, so I was just already busy with the documentation. Xtra said that he'd do the german ones. So as far as I know, you didn't have to get any permission from me, since I completely handed the project over to xtra, as I wanted to start something new, and I'm already using that. I won't be publishing this new venture, because I'd just get overloaded by support questions again, but believe me, it's pretty slick.

At the moment, I'm quite hesitant to publish any of my code, just simply because there will be too many people making basic Contao mistakes, and then think it's the extension that's to blame. I'll keep publishing smaller developments, because I simply find it very useful to use the Extension Repository to install my own extensions, than to upload them myself.

The community isn't working together because the mostly german community have formed a kind of club, but this excludes a lot of other people, primarily because of the language. I understand that -- birds of a feather flock together. If your site was honestly open to other languages, why have you not started french, spanish, swedish and other language sections, and try to get people from those countries to contribute content.

English is my second language, and you don't see me going on about why Afrikaans isn't supported? Frankly I couldn't care about my first language, because I see things with a Global perspective, everything should be primarily in English to hit the maximum amount of people to be able to get on the Contao highway.

I think the real issue is that none of us have the time to actually just sit down and do the documentation, since it doesn't matter where it is located, cause you can just copy content to multiple places (factory => wiki). I'll write my manuals as I get time, but I won't write Contao documentation, unless I get money for it from my clients, since that is my block at the moment. Maybe later when I feel my documentation is refined enough, I'll consider adding some documentation to whichever site.

I think there are a lot of people with wonderful understanding of the Contao system and how to make it useful, I'm certainly not the only person that can write documentation.

[MacKP]

hmm than i think it was my foult with the tutorial. I started that as a time i didn't know that you will give all to Xtra, so...

I realy understand what you mean. I try my best to help the developer, so that they don't need to answer the beginner question (and many other people do the same). Ok, it's mostly in the german forum, i think you understand why when you read my englisch ;-) and there are more beginners with the same questions every day and night.

We talked in irc to some french people.. I don't know why there is not more in the wiki from them. I don't know where the other people are.. almost every country start here own contao-site i think. And I can't speak french, spanish, swedish... a little bit Nederlands.. but hm this people are here, so I don't need it i think ;-)

Don't missunderstand me, i think we talk about the same things that would be great.
At the end i only can thank you for helping all the time (me mostly at the beginning with the catalog... without you and the catalog i would miss something realy great!) and for the documentations of your extensions!

regards

PS: i read something about your new big Thing. Sounds realy handy...

[imported_Nina]

If you guys don't like wikis that much (I don't either - except wikipedia of course), it's absolutely ok for me. I just think you should "open" the page (at the moment there's just this coming soon-message if you go directly to the domain). At the starting page of the "Factory" you could welcome the people, tell them about the idea of the Factory and also tell them how they can start contributing. That way people will get invited and will see how it grows.

And yes, I'd gladly also take a user account for the Factory. My english is horrible but I suppose that it is better if I create some tutorials there with bad english than no tutorials at all

Btw. I don't think it is unusual that each language-community behaves differently. This is a simple cultural question. If we take the French for example, I am used to the fact that french communities usually stick to themself. I've met this behaviour not only in open source communities but also in gaming communities. So we should not try to force people into using a special platform. The unofficial contao wiki exists and is open to all people. If people from one language want to use it, it is fine. But if others don't want to use it and start another platform - like the factory - it is fine too. Remember that we are talking about community projects. As long as people contribute, I am not interested which platform they use - I am just happy that they spend their time on this

[imported_Nina]

Guys, could you please do me a favour?

Please try to describe which things you expect from the Contao team regarding the support of the international (english speaking) community. Try to phrase a realistic and - as far as possible specific - list of things that would help the community in your opinion.

PS: Please remember though, that we are only a few people :D

[thyon]

Hey Nina

I would like to see the following minimum:

USER TUTORIAL SITE
The purpose of this tutorial is to cover absolute minimum basics like: Site Structure, Themes, Layout, CSS, Modules, Articles, Content, Inserttags, Accordion + MooTools templates, Forms (and e-mail form). This will also help Newbies understand the basic interactions of the main components of the site.

This tutorial can also be made available as installable (either install.php import sql or extension), so they can just import and go through the tutorial with this pre-created content, rather then having to create it all themselves.

The nice thing about this is that I (and anyone else) would then always install this minimum site and re-configure it for a client, saving a lot of hassle. In fact I might even end up doing the site template for this. Someone else can help with documenting the process (on Contao Factory?)

• Complete step-by-step tutorial on how to make a basic 3 page site (+1 hidden)[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• Pages to create are: HOME, SERVICES, CONTACT + News Reader (under Home)[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• Very Basic Standard Layout - Header=Logo, Left=Nav, Main=Content, Footer=Copyright with date inserttag [/*:m:1cougvgy]
• The CSS styling should be absolutely minimal, just some Nav hover background-color change and content just black text on white bg[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• HOME should include Welcome content and 3 News Headlines (latest news)[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• SERVICES should include some fake content split using an Accordion[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• CONTACT - just the standard form configured already for e-mail format send (name, email, subject, message, cc)[/*:m:1cougvgy]
• Hidden News Reader - to show how to setup a detail module[/*:m:1cougvgy]

DEVELOPER TUTORIAL
This could just be a more up to date version of the CD Database, but we will have to make it a bit more meaty. Just a simple list of items doesn't delve into some of the more powerful features of Contao. I suggest making it have multiple Archives, e.g. CD Collection Archive and then a CD Collection (like News Archives and News Items). This will then add Permissions and how to setup those, because that would be the first thing developers will need to know how to build apps with permissions for archives, etc. as that is quite a tricky setup. This will also then cover the basics of creating views for collections, items and palettes for the BE.

For the Front-End, we really only need a List, and Reader Module to show how that works, including Title, Description and MetaKeywords override.

[imported_Nina]

At the moment I am updating my free "Dachshund"-template. I tried to keep it very basic and will upload it in several versions:

• english template (complete structure with css, page layout, modules, pages, articles, etc.)[/*:m:2vb4c903]
• englisch layout theme (css, page layout, modules, but no pages/articles=[/*:m:2vb4c903]
• the same in german[/*:m:2vb4c903]

I also want to create a step-by-step tutorial explaining this template and will publish it on Contao-factory and in the unofficial Contao-wiki. So hopefully I can satisfy your first wish

[thyon]

<deleted>

[thyon]

Hi Nina

Just to note not to copy the Music Academy template formats, as I thought placing the NAV in the header left-floated was a really bad mistake on leo's part, as this created a LOT of confusion for me in the beginning. Just a Logo in the HEADER, the Nav in the LEFT section and some inserttags stuff in the footer should be the basic template. In fact, we could illustrate how to make multiple layouts, by have 1 additional layout to show the reader page inserted on the News reader layout. That way with only 2 layouts, the user will quickly figure out how to use layouts.

Sounds great so far.